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with israel. thank you. what happens with egypt will be the big turning point here. does egypt remain on the sidelines? egypt today condemned this action by the israelis. the question is what else will egypt do? we will have continuing coverage of the situation there. mideast security expert joins us live to explain the implications of the action there today, where the united states stands on it. and president obama visited some of the people after -- still hurting after hurricane sandy. we'll hear from him and one of the people dealing in the aftermath. the crisis in israel, and the crisis in the aftermath of the storm, those are both coming up. >>> continuing to watch live images coming in from the gaza. this is 10:23 p.m. obviously it is hours later there and night fall has been with them for many hours. our correspondent mentioned that the israeli air force are flying this, and they have hit a lot of targets today. the question is what happens with ground troops. let's bring in the former intelligence officer of defense. mike, good of you, thank you. let's start with the ground tr
room" starts now. >>> happening now, police fire tear gas as demonstrations in egypt turn violent. angry protesters accuse egypt's president of betraying the revolution. and in the word of one critic, making himself a pharoah. what happened before and after u.s. navy s.e.a.l.s. did in the moments before killing osama bin laden. >>> wolf blitzer's off today. i'm joe johns. you're in "the situation room." >>> we begin with today's astonishing show of fury in egypt. within the past hour egyptian authorities tear gassed protesters in cairo's tahrir square. angry demonstrators packed the square today denouncing egyptian president mohamed morsi as a dictator and accusing him of a power grab. cnn's reza sayah is in cairo. reza, what's it look like now? >> reporter: joe, it is 11:00 p.m. cairo time. these demonstrators started gathering around in tahrir square about 1:00 p.m. local time. that means they've been going strong for about ten hours. many thought maybe egyptians were worn out, tired of demonstrating after the 2011 revolution, but if you look at tahrir square today, if you look
a plea to allies of the palestinians in particular. the president of egypt, the prime minister of turkey said if you would like to see a two-state solution in the near future, a palestinian state next to israel this has to deescalate now. the president expressing this fear if hamas doesn't stop rocket attacks on to israel's soille he fears left unsaid is israel may retaliate and turn in to a ground war and then the idea of a two-state solution in the peace process will be in the way distant future. obviously the middle east peace process has been on hold for quite sometime. he was asked about this trip will include a visit to myanmar which is also known as burma. he was asked whether it was too soon. a lot of human rights violations taken in burma and he wouldn't have gone if aung san suu kyi didn't think it was right for him to go. a few notes to point out. one is during -- before the press conference he and secretary clinton were visiting a mondastermonastery. they were joking about getting prayers over the fiscal cliff. the president at the press conference was asked what about what k
into israel and firing back on twitter, warning israel has "opened the gates of hell" on itself. egypt has recalled its ambassador to israel. in the meantime, the u.s. state department condemned the strikes fired from gaza and supporting israel's right to defend itself. i talked about all of this with sara sidner and also david kirkpatrick of the new york times and cnn's fareed zakaria. what is the latest on the attacks and the failout? >> what we are seeing are more rockets coming into israel. there have been dozens of air strikes as well since the killing of ahmed al jabari, the leader of hamas' military wing, but he is also one of the founders of hamas. we are talking about a huge blow to hamas, and now the government there in gaza. israel is also telling us, and we are just hearing this from the military spokesperson that they are bringing in reservists, but they are consider iing a ground war, but they have not yet given the go ahead for that, but they are preparing. we know that they have been firing with the air with the air strikes, but we also know that they have been firing from
to the far east speaking air force one with leaders from israel and egypt and turkey in a scramble to avoid further escalation of the violence. i welcome israel's counsel general and will israel invade gaza in >> the man date that the israel defense forces receive from the israeli government is remove the threat that is it a magnitude. and thousands of rockets that threaten and paralyze life in our count southerp region. the government gave a man date to remove and thatthis is not limited in time or in scope. it is it certainly a possibility and at this stage of the game we don't know yet. >> gaza is one of the defensest populated places. there will be more civilian casulties and don't worry about international pressure on israel. >> we enjoy legitimacy. the president of the united states expressed support in israel's right to arm itself. but we are concerned about innocent people being harmed because of the military action. and the government instructed it to minimize it as humanly possible the loss of life and damage to proper. >> i know that. and i know that israel always does that. and
: in the middle of all of this, it's a very unstable and frankly, unpredictable egypt. and it could be the key. >> yeah. egypt is absolutely a key player in this. right now it's new muslim brotherhood president, morsi, appears to be playing both sides. he has reportedly quietly given the green light to his intelligence services to put pressure on hamas to scale back on those rocket attacks, while publicly he is sending his prime minister to the gaza strip tomorrow in what will clearly be a show of solidarity with the palestinians. now, the egyptian calculation may be that by having their prime minister there, they will cause a pause in the fighting because israel will be reluctant to carry on with the air strikes and launch any kind of ground invasion while such a high ranking egyptian politician is there. that might, of course, help the palestinians. on the other hand, any pause in the fighting also gives a little more time for diplomacy to start work. but watching what egypt's leaders say and do in the next few days is going to be key in what happens next in this very tense situation. shep.
today. >> charlie d'agata in gaza city, thanks. >>> there's new pressure for egypt to step up and negotiate an end to the current round of fighting. this morning there are conflicting reports out of cairo that israel and gaza could be close to a truce. clarissa ward is in the egyptian capital. good morning, clarissa. >> reporter: good morning, charlie and norah. the egyptian president morsi has said repeatedly he hopes to announce a cease-fire agreement imminently. but cbs news has spoken to a source very close to the hamas delegation here in cairo. they said that so far these talks are not going anywhere. now, one of the reasons for that may be that hamas is making some pretty big demands in exchange for stopping its rocket attacks on israel. primarily it wants an end to the israeli blockade of the gaza strip. israel unlikely to budge on that issue because of fears that lifting the blockade would lead to an influx of weapons that could get into the hands of militants inside gaza. as you said, u.n. secretary general ban ki-moon is on his way to cairo now for talks as diplomati
's targeting 100 sites across gaza. i know, youf heard this all before. this time it's different. because egypt is not happy with with israel. it's already reached out to president obama and told him, we must put an end to this aggression. sarah seidner is in the region and has the latest for us this morning. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, carol. yes, the number of those who have been killed during this escalation, fighting between gaza and israels had now risen. three people in israel inside an apartment building killed from a rocket attack sent from gaza, from hamas, the government here. we're now learning that 15 people have been killed here in total today, here in gaza, including nine militants, several children and a pregnant woman. what's happening now is off and on, we are hearing air strikes. again and again across the city, across gaza city and along the gaza strip. we know that there have been more than 196 rockets now that have entered into israel from gaza. we were there this morning when we saw ourselves 15 rockets coming in. some of those rockets being knocked down by th
speaking today from air force one with leaders from israel,ro egypt, and turkey in a scramble to avoid further escalation of the violence. so let me welcome israel's council general in new york andc ask the ambassador now will israel invade gaza? >> well, the mandate that the israel defense forces we see from the israeli government is to remove the threat that w will be of strategic rockets. it a threatens life in our southern region. the government gave a mandate to remove that strategic threat. this mandate is not limited in time or scope. it's search a possibility, and obviously at this stage of the game we don't know yet. >> gaza, one of the most densely populated areas on earth, inevitably there will be more civilian b casualties. don't you worry about international pressure on israel. >> well, right now we enjoy a large degree of international le jet mlegitlegitimacy. the president expressed his support about e israel's right d need to defend itself. however, we are very concerned with the possibility of nbt innt people being harmed as a result of our action. the government instr
of israel and hamas are in egypt separately for peace talks. hamas issuing its demand for a cease-fire. they want israel to end a long-running military blockade of gaza immediately. the carnage from the last 24 hours, arwa damon is in gaza city. >> reporter: the large slab of concrete and mangled metal finally gives way. buried beneath it, another lifeless body. it's the second child we've seen. there was also a baby. others in the neighborhood say the blast killed all ten people who lived here. israel says it was targeting a man who heads a rocket launch unit. people we spoke with said they never heard of him. this was a family home. >> people here are telling us that so far those who have been killed in this strike have been women and children. and they have not been able to find any survivors. just moments ago, from that back corner, they did pull out the body of a tiny child. an over here there's another frantic effort under way. tempers easily flare as frustration and anger mount. >> she's my uncle's wife, this young man shouts. rage coupled with sorrow etched across his face
for the palestinians. egypt's relations with hamas strengthened. but the new administration in that country. protesters in turkey set an israeli flag and photo of benjamin netanyahu ablaze during a demonstration last night. let's go now to the israeli side of the border as we've been reporting israeli tanks and troops have been taking up position there's. cnn's reporter joins us live from the border. fred, thanks for joining us. what you are seeing in the terms of military activity where you are? >> reporter: hi, gary. there is a lot of military activity on this side of the border as well. a lot of it has to do with the big military buildup that's going on here. look at the roads around the area of gaza, a lot of them have been blocked off. they're not accessible anymore to normal people that want go to go through there they're a military operation zone. you're seeing a lot of military hardware on the road, usually on the back of trucks. we see a lot of tanks being delivered here, a lot of armored personnel carriers. what's going on is all this hardware is brought to collection area as well as a lot of
at the u.n. and in egypt to finally reach a truce here. we asked abc's christiane amanpour in jerusalem, where diplomatic efforts now stands. >> reporter: the gang of nine are meeting the prime minister and senior advisers and cabinet to try to figure out how to respond to a proposal put forward by egypt. so the effort is really under way to have a diplomatic solution. whether it works or not we are waiting to see. all the american efforts are going through egypt, when it comes to hamas. they're taking the lead. from what we understand, egypt wants to have a cease-fire, then a bigger negotiation about lifting the siege of gaza. hamas wants that all to be part of one agreement. and israel wants to see a stop of hostilities, no more rockets into israel and doesn't want to link that to a cease-fire. so those are the parameters. how they get close together to make a success of this is really what's under way right now. >> thank you, christiane am afternoon pour, reporting from jerusalem. the "l.a. times" did a great story on this, summed up the heart of the conflict here. and it says -- any
and egyptian leaders in cairo, egypt. coming up for you at 7:15, what egypt's president is saying this morning about the possibilities for a cease-fire. >>> it's 7:07. we want to check in with sal for an update on a terrible situation on caltrain, a train fatality. >> that's right. caltrain, major delays this morning because train number 103 northbound hit a pedestrian in palo alto, a lot of people were taken off the train and they are being put on buses. a lot of these people are very late to work and the train is stopped here on the tracks northbound. now, the southbound trains are moving through. but it is going to be pretty slow going and caltrain has major delays. there are those people who are -- i don't know what they are waiting for but perhaps they are waiting to get on the bus here that's gonna take them to the next caltrain station. let's take a look at the bay bridge toll plaza. that's bocked up all the way -- backed up beyond the 880 overcrossing. that major problems getting into san francisco once on the bridge itself. we talked about 101 and highway 1, a little bit of slowing he
to egypt's president morsi. this is the first major flare up of israel-policemen since morsi gained control of egypt. >>> coming up on the morning news, trouble for an accused masked shooter. why a court hearing was delayed for james holmes the suspected gunman in the colorado movie theater shooting and later luck running you want for two brothers trying to pull off a multimillion dollar lottery scheme. this is the "cbs morning news." mother: this is george. he is a good little monkey and always very curious. one day george got an important letter... he's built a rocket ship to travel into space. girl: google, how far is earth to the moon? google voice response: moon is 238,900 miles... mother vo: the great moment had come... ...3...2...1. ♪ have led to an increase intands clinical depression. drug and alcohol abuse is up. and those dealing with grief don't have access to the professional help they need. when you see these issues, do you want to walk away or step up? with a degree in the field of counseling or psychology from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make a differe
and in egypt. in tunisia, for the win minister was here in gaza. yesterday the egyptian prime minister here. hamas is a division of the muslim brotherhood. the egyptian president is now from the muslim brotherhood. hamas is counting on this arab solidarity, this new playing field to significantly change the balance of power between the hamas militants who clearly don't have the kind of weapons that israel has, but they think now they will have broader political support, not from just the new arab government but also from the newly empowered arab streets. >> how nervous is this making the united states? given the arab support and the tenuous support from the arab brotherhood, is israel been encouraged to show restraint in this case? >> i think the united states is asking all parties to show restraint. the president, according to reports, has spoken with the egyptian president, he has spoken to the israelis. it's in israel's interest. it's in egypt's interests, the united states interests to tamp this down. it is not, however, in hamas' interests. hamas' strategy is to inspire the revolutiona
-fire or a truce. they tried doing that a day ago using egypt as the intermediary, that fell through. now egypt has taken its ambassador out of israel, so who will do the mediation and who will try to get in between these two warring factions and try to get them to come together to stop this is going to be a real difficult, a real problem, i think, for the time being. but israel is saying, look, if you keep send rockets into our country, we are going to respond and we are going to respond with force. >> sara sidner inside gaza. >> wondering about that response inside the neighboring country. >>> coming up, how the president will pay personal attentions to the victims of sandy, just hours from now. [ boys screaming ] hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of
. the trip was officially to lend world support to hamas, which egypt's government supports but he was accompanied by officials involved in brokering a truce in the last gaza fighting in hopes of do iing the same again. sophisticated anti-missile defense system that includes both israeli developed revelry. some got through. this family was surveying the damage of their home when fear of another attack sent every one scurrying for shelter. with at least a dozen casualties in gaza, including six children repo reported so far. the three-hour egyptian mission had little to offer in way of immediate hope for either side. calling the fighting a tragedy and said he would spare no effort to achieve a truce. the next diplomatic effort will be tuesday when u.n. secretary general ban ki moon arrives. between now and then, there may be a lot more they have to negotiate if he wants a cease fire, never mind a truce, in this battle. i'm allen pizzey on the israeli/gaza border. >> george mitchell, former united states special envoy, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> this clash and the exchange of
saw this massive push in this really indigenous push within egypt, tunisia, and other democratic governments. some of those movements have had potentially scary things. there are some islamic fundamentalist parties that we do not have great relationships with and they understand that can be confusing thing. what obama has tried to do and in his famous speech in cairo is that he wants to deal with these countries and talk to the electorate. now we have an entirely different landscape, but in egypt, libya, and tunisia. relationship with these countries, these are countries with democratic governments. some of them have chosen paths that are a little more moderate, some leaning a little bit more to the fundamentalist side, but they're still fundamentally democratic and that will be a big challenge for the obama administration. host: its next for egypt? -- what is next for egypt? ?uest: in terms of ta host: the obama administration. guest: they still need to establish some of the legitimate government there. after the incredibly uplifting movements in it to rear square, it has devolv
, not a phenomenon. the era of egypt and the region has changed, and america has now beginning to learn a new and listen to a new language. >> so is he right? is there a new era dawning in the middle east? and what does it mean for the u.s.? >> well, there's clearly a new era dawning in the middle east. and we're still trying to figure out what the new order is going to look like, as are many people on the ground. but both sides to a certain degree can claim a degree of victory here. hamas survived and it can never win militarily. but it can -- it -- its survival means that it won to a certain extent. that's the model created in the war between israel and hezbollah in neighboring lebanon. but israel also made significant gains out of this. it proved that its iron dome missile defense system could protect vast areas and could shoot down the majority of hamas rockets. and one of the things it's going to get out of this from the united states is additional help in providing more missiles for iron dome so that it has even a greater range of protection. so the dynamics are changing a little bit on
in preparation for war. >> ben joins us by phone this morning. egypt's prime minister paid a visit to gaza. somehow that going so far? >> well, it was originally planned it would be a three-hour cease fire while the egyptian prime minister was making this visit to gaza. according to our sources, it doesn't appear either side significantly reduced their level of military activity in gaza. certainly before the sun came up there was an intense air attack on gaza itself. it may have been lessened somewhat in the morning while the prime minister was touring gaza. but after he's gone, it's expected to get back to the same pace. >> there are elections coming up not too long from now in israel. palestinians are saying that may be part of the impetus for israel to be taking action. >> certainly this is what you hear oftentimes. tc it was the casame case in the 2008, 2009 offensive. they say the leaders are motivated by a desire to show they're strong on hamas. in fact, we spoke to one palestinian lawmaker who stressed the point that really this is all about politics. >> and ben, of course, one of t
. >> and there is the concern of how egypt will react. what is the word there on how they are reacting? >> well, we already heard from egypt's president and the foreign minister. they have condemned the emergency meeting in the arab league to explore popular options. egypt says it will open the border with gaza to completely allow all wounded and injured and anybody else who wants to get out. we are getting initial reports that the prime minister may be leading a high delegation visit tomorrow. that would be unprecedented given the security situation here. >> a ayman, thank you so much. appreciate it. from the middle east to back home. let's take a look at what is happening this hour. the president will land in new york city within the next 30 minutes, where he will tour the damage done by superstorm sandy. he will be greeted by andrew cuomo and governor bloomberg. and there are two closed door meetings on the deadly attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. one is taking place with the house intelligence committee and the the other with the house foreign affairs committee. there are new developments on th
that country. in egypt a scene of devastation at a railroad crossing after a train hit a bus caring kindergarten students. the government says 49 children are dead, 18 others hurt. >>> back in this country, the coast guard is still searching for two oil rig workers after yesterday's explosion and fire on a platform in the gulf of mexico. >>> a 20-year-old missouri man is facing charges for an admitted plot to want a shooting spree at a theater showing the new twilight movie. the man's mother contacted police after she discovered he bought weapons like the ones used in the colorado movie theater massacre. >>> nfl great mike ditka say his doctors say he suffered a very minor stroke. ditka was playing cards yesterday when he suddenly had trouble speaking and using his hands. espn analyst says he feels good right now and it's not a big deal. and those are your fast five headlines. >>> we have this breaking news. israel and gaza exchange rocket fire for the fourth straight day. new video from the ground in gaza shows the damage from the israeli warplanes and other missiles. the warplanes
and hamas and islamic jihad and egypt brokered it and took the major credit and endorsed by the united states. it is a feeling that we'll not just have a cease fire but a calm that lasts a couple of years and allowing life to return back to normal in southern israel. they will have to wait to see if the air raid sirens go off. >> i am skeptical. >> i think everybody is skeptical. >> how could you not be. >> it is a couple of months it may last. >> and u.s. ambassador susan rice is speaking out about the benghazi terrorist attack that left four americans dead and defeppeding her comments. >> when discussing the attacks against our benghazi i relied solely and squarely on the information provided to me by the intelligence community. i made clear that the information was prelimary and that investigations would give definitive answers. >> back up to the weeks after num num you may remember rice went on the sunday talk shows and said it was spontanous and result over the anti-muslim mim. mccane is critizing her. and rice said his comments are unfounded. >> police in new york city arresting
early morning calls today to the leaders of israel and egypt, he has deepened u.s. involvement, sending secretary of state clinton to the region. >> the goal throughout that trip is for everybody to use their influence and their voices to encourage a peaceful outcome. our bottom line is that peace has to include an end of rocket fire that threatens israel. >> reporter: clinton will first go to israel to meet with prime minister netanyahu and then to pal's esestine but will not meet with hamas. very aware of the increasing pressure from congress to cut the more than $1 billion in military aid which the u.s. gives to egypt if they don't cooperate. clinton's message, an escalation of the violence will hurt everyone israeli and palestinians. calm is in everyone's best interest. for sbs"cbs this morning," bill plante in phnom penh. >> the obama administration is warning against making any ground attacks. air attacks continue at this hour. allan pizzey is in tel aviv. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. there are sign that is both sides of the conflict a
as the cia director. >>> in egypt today one man is dead after violent clashes with police. protesters are camping out in cairo's tahrir square. in a scene strikingly similar to what we saw in the revolution almost two years ago, the demonstrators are voicing their anger with president mohamed morsi after what some are calling an unprecedented power grab. cnn's reza sayah is joining us from cairo once again. reza, we're hearing about attacks against several muslim brotherhood offices in egypt. what do you know about that? >> reporter: according to the brotherhood spokesperson, two of their offices were attacked by anti-morsi protesters. the brotherhood says the protesters were carrying molotov cocktails, clubs and knives and destroyed and heavily damaged these offices. remember, muslim brotherhood had called for a one-million-man demonstration of their own today to rival the opposition's demonstrations. late last night they called it off to avoid violence. but in these two particular cities north of cairo, they didn't avoid violence. >> reza, we're also seeing and i want to show our vi
system. the middle east has changed a lot in the past couple of years. egypt has pulled its ambassador out of israel in protest. they have said they want this to end right now. cutter has came out in a very strong statement against israel. egypt is calling for a u.n. security council meeting about this latest round of attacks the united states for its part though is standing by israel. right now, it is 2:15 in the morning. 10 hours is when hamas will buyery their dead. that's when we will know if they call it a day or we are starting another war. shepard? >> shepard: weird lighting there, leland. have they been shooting at you? >> not yet. that's what we are trying to prevent. they have laser guided missiles back in the gaza strip. that's what started this whole thing six days ago. we don't want to give them any targets considering how dark it is out here. we don't want them mistaking us for israeli army jeep. >> shepard: three people died when their small plane crashed into a house in mississippi. and it reportedly happened while they were on their way to a federal aviation administra
but egypt and possibly beyond. jenna: let's focus on syria. this conflict has been going on for 19 months. woe just heard news that the opposition group there elected a leader, a christian, the second-in-command being a member of the muslim brotherhood. we keep hearing that the opposition forces are very amorphous, we can't side with them because they don't know who they are. how do we interrupt the forces if they are keith a network and are at work in this region? >> jenna, very interesting we moved from we don't know who they are to we very well know who they are at this time. the central force and opposition is the muslim brotherhood. there is consensus among the region and observe. >> the number two of the new group, is a number two of the muslim brotherhood in syria. the chief, the new president of the council is indeed a christian. he is secular. he has been very liberal. he will oppose the muslim brotherhood. the problem, jenna, he doesn't have influence. those who control the ground are islamist militias. those who control most of the institutions are muslim brotherhood. you have
. they control hamas. they're right now agitating. they're agitating probably egypt. >> lebanon presumably? >> yeah. yeah. >> what concerns me as somebody who's covered this story for a long time, if tensions heat up with hamas and gaza, heat up with hezbollah from lebanon and iran working on its nuclear program, look what's happening israel's neighbor in the north, syria, there's potential there are for huge explosion. >> yeah. there's a powder keg potential. there's another reason why this administration has leverage, strength now that the president won should push once again for an israeli/palestinian agreement. >> with the palestinian authority. >> with the plo, two-state solution. push that. get the israeli supportive. but right now i can understand what israel's doing, defending itself. >> two years ago almost to the day you went to north korea. i went with you. spent six days in pyongyang. since then there's a new leader, kim jong-un, the young man now the leader of north korea. you studied this closely. i'm curious, do you see significant changes yet positive changes, negative chan
of protesters filled the streets in egypt's capital. protesters in the nation of turkey set an israeli flag on fire, also a photo of benjamin netanyahu during a demonstration last evening. >>> president obama makes history this weekend with a three-nation tour of asia. the president is on his way to thailand right now, but it are rr the second leg of the trip that makes it historic, he's visiting myanmar. he wraps up his oversees trip in cambodia. he'll attend the east asia summit before returning to the united states on wednesday. >> rescue planes are still searching for two crew members missing after an oil rig exploding in the gulf of mexico. at least 11 people were injured in the gas. a very small amount of fuel, 28 gallons spilled in the water. the fire is out but federal authorities are investigating the incident. >>> nfl icon mike ditka is recovering from a stroke. espn said the former chicago bears super bowl coach, he won the super bowl in '86, suffered a stroke on friday. ditka, who is an analyst for espn told a local chicago paper, quote, i feel good right now, and it's not a big
to egypt hoping the leaders can solve the mess. >> the egyptian have an interest in the region not exploding. they will have to take serious steps to make it clear to hamas they will lose support. >> egypt watch what you do and how you do it. you are teetering with the congress of having aid cut off if you continue to incite violence. >> brian: what about the arab democracy? our next guest is a former cia agent with the unit. michael, another conflict between the israelis and palestinians. and the center piece is gaza. what is different now? >> what is different now, america had invested in 50 years in tyranny to make sure israel was suppressed and the america protected. when arab spring came. people including senator graham predicted just a secular democracy and it was a arab spring of secularism. people will turn in a time of turmoil to their faith or what they believed in for a thousand years. we have governments in libya where our people were killed and now in egypt that are going to support their breathern. >> brian: what is the best conclusion and best way to end. >> i am
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 80 (some duplicates have been removed)